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March 30, 2009

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michael webster

This is a pretty decent overview, but you are incorrect about the rate of return Madoff promised.

A usual ponzi scheme has high rates of return, which entices the naive investor to think that he can beat the system and earn risk free or house money after he has made back his or her initial investment.

Madoff was far smarter. What he was promising a realistic rate of return, but with no volatility or risk. Lack of volatility is of interest to the long term investor. These investors did not want to get rich fast, they wanted to maintain their capital and grow at a "safe" rate.

I think that your overview has merit, but some of the particular facts needed to be corrected.

Ron C. de Weijze

Can conspiracy theories be self-fulfilling prophecies? I believe many schemes in society are like the ponzi or pyramid ones. Isn't it basically favoritism towards one another, nepotism or cronyism? The more members a groups gets, favouring each other over non-groupmembers, the more democratic influence they get. Then where's the glitch? I think (yes this is all very speculative) that it is fooling democracy, by claiming that one voice or vote really is many and should be counted as many, thereby gaining the sought-after power and influence. What is held covert, is that this outcome was the incentive to become a group in the first place. Independence, as in judicial, journalistic or scientific fact finding and truth maintenance, is sacrificed. It is the 'yes we can' in politically 'correct' hallelujism.

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Nice Read


Regards
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Thanks for such a nice post.

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Suzie Sebastian

I can imagine how I myself could have been pulled into this Ponzi scheme quite easily if I had any money whatsoever to give to the guy. I did not come from a family with much money and I have always wondered and thought that the people who have money must have some special secret or special connections. I have had the opportunity to travel and spend time with quite a few people with a whole lotta dough and while in their company felt as though I was richer just being in their breathing space. If I had a friend who introduced me to Bernie and said give this guy your money I probably would have gone to my piggy bank or sold the stuff in my garage to scrape together as much dough as I could give to the guy. The whole time I would feel as though I had arrived with the In-group and my success was around the corner. I would probably be thinking how the heck did I get so lucky to meet this guy and probably wouldnt even asked for a formal receipt. We all know that success is almost always more as a result of whom we know rather than what we know. Bernie Madoff is extremely charismatic and brilliant. I am sure more people than those that would like to admit it would do the same thing.

chance wood

Is there really "two America's"? One for the rich, and one for the poor? After the outrage of the stock crash, monetary malfeasance of investor money and just plain unethical behavior on part of a select group of people on Wall street. I, among many other have to say yes.

I have to agree with Michael Webster, the American public was spoon fed that if we should put money in 401k's, put money in a hedge-fund, put your money in pensions and just leave it there, don't worry about it. And that what people did, the we're investing in the long-term, doing the "safe thing" and got burned.

More than 2 million people watched John Stewart grill Jim Cramer like a New York steak about his part in creating an aura of security in his investment picks, which ultimately evaporated. The public expressed outrage over Bernie Madoff, and AIG. Nearly every day brings new tales of outright deception and I don't think anyone should be spared in this environment of accountability and faireness. We're the ones holding the check for corporate/white color crime, and it feels like the American public are the ones capitalizing the adventure of the elite's on Wall Street with our pensions and hard earned money.

Brooke Robison

Upon reading this article at first glance, I was convicted because I myself have fallen for such a scheme at the encouragement of a family member. That family member is notorious for being swindled by these types of companies yet he keeps on applying to them. I was unaware of this at the time. So first tell me why someone would continue to invest in this type of company even after multiple rip-offs? Is that not like being stolen from and then asking to be stolen from again? I am appalled that greed would overpower someone to the point that he would swindle his own family and friends for an unworthy cause. This article is definitely a warning that these kinds of companies are still out there and to be aware and watch out for them. It is so true, that hegemony plays a major role in the swindling process. I can see that many times the reasons for the choices a person will make is based on an attribute seen in someone else that is perceived to be classified in a higher class system then them. An example I could think of would be a fashion fad. Those in a higher class would be able to buy expensive designer accessories like the Louis Vuitton brand, which is so plain yet extremely wanted. The purse is not wanted because it is extremely beautiful but that it is designer. It has an implicit stamp of elitism upon it. Those in a lower class system continue to buy look-alike products to somehow fit in, or play like they are part of the higher class. Thus the chase for more than what we have or for something better than what we have is what I perceive to be at play in everything that we do even the choices that we make.

Brent Sianez

I agree that greed motivates people to commit such crimes and/or become participants in schemes. As an economics major I am familiar with the idea of money as motivation. I agree with the concept of hegemony, as a participant in what we called social marketing (the politically correct word for pyramid schemes). I recruited other people saying how much it could help them – when I was doing it for my benefit. The fascinating part about my experience was how the company maintained the image that it was helping its employees, and at first I really believed I was helping other people. It wasn’t until seeing some of my close friends’ failures and losses that I realized the problems with these types of companies.
I don’t agree with the assumption that all participants are exploited. From my experiences, the money is real. Even the products were of great quality, but overpriced. Unfortunately the real money was in recruiting new people, not selling the products. I witnessed a lot of people making good money and I did pretty well myself, but I also saw people losing their money. I feel that in joining these companies you are being exploited, but you also become an exploiter. Your job is to find more people to exploit, and the targets are usually friends. I thought that “employing” my friends was going to help them make the same money I did instead I felt like I alienated my friends.
She says that such schemes are illegal, which seems odd because I was involved with two companies and never saw anybody penalized. How do these companies get so big? I felt I knew what I was getting myself into when I joined, but I didn’t know until reading this blog that they are illegal. Greed is a reason to join these companies, but how are so many Americans joining these social groups of thieves without knowing what they are getting themselves into?

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